Interview with John Craven. October 1977.

In a pub in the middle of nowhere, Evan Paris talks to John Craven.

JC - What do you think to the beer here?
EP - It's alright...
JC - Can't say I'm convinced myself...
EP - No?
JC - Mm... Oh well... Did you like the record?
EP - Um. Yes, as a matter of fact...
JC - I think you're the only one.
EP - Yes?
JC - It's not the most popular record in the world.
EP - Well it is quite different.
JC - Yup. Oh yeah. I mean, I don't care... I like it. Well... I'm kind of bored of bits of it now, but I've lived with it longer than everyone else... You like it then?
EP - Yeah.
JC - Why?
EP - Well, you know, things are getting a little samey these days.
JC - Mm?
EP - Only so much you can do with three chords after all...
JC - You'll probably find that punk'll evolve into something and then we'll end up with prog again and then vum... all over again.
EP - Er... right. Yes. Well, shall we talk about the album then?
JC - Do you want to?
EP - May aswell... That's what you're trying to promote isn't it?
JC - Is there any point?
EP - What's your favourite track?
JC - Ooh... um... well at the time it was Souls... but I quite like Pope at the moment. It turned out rather well I think.
EP - A-huh.
JC - What's your favourite?
EP - Well I really like that whole stretch from Souls through to Deuteronomy.
JC - Yeah...
EP - I think it really works well as a material whole.
JC - Mm.
EP - How's it gone down then, the album? With the fans?
JC - Um? It hasn't really... For a lot of them it's like four minutes of the record is any good, and the rest is just... crap...
EP - What, Fuck Window and Dead Clergy?
JC - Yeah. I mean, as far as gigs go, things are very cool at first, but once they see you're still playing gigs in the same way, you know, just me and Ike and what have you, they kind of get into it. I mean we don't really play stuff like Souls or Deuteronomy live...
EP - Well I can see it'd be tricky...
JC - Well yeah... and once they see that we're much the same live, they feel a bit happier, but they still think Death Bitch Queen were a waste of their hard earned money.
EP - More fool them, I say.
JC - Ta. But if my audience were made up of people like you, I'd have to... really rethink my stage act.
EP - Could be interesting.
JC - Mm.
EP - Would you rather be doing stuff like on Death Bitch Queen than the stuff you are doing live?
JC - Not really. It'd be too much like hard work.
EP - Ha. When I heard the record the first time I thought, well, "what the fuck was that"... you know, the first two tracks... and then by the end of side one...
JC - Good.
EP - What was your inspiration?
JC - Mm? Well... er... I've been listening to a lot of Terry Riley.
EP - Oh?
JC - Yeah. You know, three chord garage music is all well and good, but I think there's something much more rebellious about taking a pop record and then taking a knife to it...
EP - So it's an act of rebellion?
JC - Well, punk's seen as rebellious. I was just making a contrast. I mean, for me, punk's just rock'n'roll. It's just about purity - back to basics... but, I don't know...
EP - You seem to have a problem with the church.
JC - I do have a problem with the church.
EP - Yes.
JC - I think the church has a lot to answer for. Religion has a lot to answer for.
EP - Yeah, but your vitriol seems firmly centred on Christianity.
JC - I had a very strict Catholic up-bringing. This is my rebellion. So I guess it is about rebellion. Smart arse.
EP - Yes. Can't pull the wool over my eyes.
JC - Well no. You seem quite an intelligent person. You liked the last album after all...
EP - Yes.
JC - Unless you're just saying that to get in my good books...
EP - Noonoonoo...
JC - Good. I should hope not...
EP - Did Ike like it?
JC - Mm? Ike... He'd've been happier if he'd've been on more than two tracks I think...
EP - I see. He seemed quite chirpy the other month.
JC - He's happy enough. He comes over and we play some gigs, and then he goes off to his girlfriend in Sheffield. He can't complain really.
EP - No. Can you?
JC - What?
EP - Are you happy with things?
JC - I'd be happier if more than just you had liked the album.
EP - Right. Yes.
JC - But other than that, things are fine.
EP - Good.
JC - Yourself?
EP - Lovely, thanks.
JC - Jolly good.
EP - What do you reckon to everyone else these days then?
JC - Huh?
EP - Well no-one liked your album... but what do you reckon to the rest of the music world at the moment?
JC - Oh.
EP - What was the last record you bought?
JC - Ooh. Um... well I bought an EP the other day... by er... the um... Soft Boys. And... Wire and the Pistols have LPs out soon if not now, so I expect they'll be next.
EP - Ooh. Right. What do you reckon to your current label-mates on Clustcwyr?
JC - Um... Well I thought Diserch were really good, but they're dead now. I think the Dead Unicorns are er... disappointing in comparison. Er... The Seed are ok, though, what I've seen. Very Wiry. That's good.
EP - Have you seen Dirywio yet?
JC - Who?
EP - I'll take that as a no.
JC - Should I've heard of them?
EP - They played the Swan last Thursday. Three fellas and a scary woman.
JC - Scary?
EP - Hard to describe unless you see her, but the front row feared for their life I think.
JC - Ooh. Are they any good?
EP - They're not bad. A raucous lot. A sort of cross between Diserch and the Pistols.
JC - Oh? I'll no doubt catch them soon, unless they split before I get the chance.
EP - They've signed some sort of singles deal with Clustcwyr.
JC - Oh, right. I'll look out for them.
EP - How about the Margarets?
JC - They're just irritating. Aren't they?
EP - I wouldn't like to comment.
JC - I see you agree with me.
EP - They'll probably split again soon.
JC - No. They're too irritating. Irritating groups last for ages, just to be irritating.
EP - Like the Cookie Crumbs.
JC - You know I can't discuss that. It's more than my life's worth.
EP - Of course. But you co-wrote and engineered the new album.
JC - Did I?
EP - Yes.
JC - Oh yes. So I did. Didn't we discuss this last time?
EP - It hadn't come out then.
JC - I think you'll find all my tracks had gone out on the singles.
EP - Had they?
JC - You're not a great journalist really...
EP - I can't say I've ever studied the works of Cathy Carrow.
JC - And if I ever catch you...
EP - Very good. Very quick.
JC - Mm.
EP - You still living on your boat?
JC - Mm? Oh yeah. Intermittently. I spend a lot of time at Cathy's. But theoretically.
EP - I see. You're just an old hippy at heart, aren't you?
JC - Am I?
EP - Living on a boat.
JC - Is that a hippy thing? I hadn't realised. I thought hippies lived in fields.
EP - It seems quite a hippy lifestyle.
JC - Oh.
EP - So how serious is your relationship with Cathy?
JC - Well we're sleeping together... um?
EP - Are there wedding bells on the horizon?
JC - What a trite sentence.
EP - Sorry. Are there?
JC - Marriage is an outmoded institution that goes against my feminist ideology.
EP - Feminist ideology?
JC - Oh yes. That Germaine Greer. Phwoar.
EP - I see. Um. I think you're misunderstanding some of the basic principles of feminism.
JC - Oh. Am I?
EP - I think so.
JC - Oh. Silly me.
EP - Marriage not on the cards then.
JC - I hope not. I'm quite happy with the set-up as it is.
EP - You don't want to move out of your boat.
JC - Oh, we'd have to live on my boat...
EP - Like I say.
JC - Mm.
EP - Well what's the next step musically? Do you just become the sixth member of the Cookie Crumbs, or have you and Ike got any projects on the go?
JC - I'm not going to become the sixth member of the Cookie Crumbs. What a ludicrous idea.
EP - So...?
JC - Me and Ike are just having a bit of a rest. Then we'll probably start working on some new songs.
EP - Ahuh.
JC - We've got a couple that we recorded for DBQ, but that I decided weren't quite cooked. So maybe I'll look at them again.
EP - What are they called?
JC - Um?
EP - You know, so that in the future people will look and see these songs and go "ooh, they were nearly on Death Bitch Queen"...
JC - Ha. Well um... Brain Dead and Soil Survivor.
EP - What Survivor?
JC - Soil Survivor. As in soil. As in Living Dead.
EP - I see. I think. What was wrong with them?
JC - They were a bit naff. They're getting better. Or I'm just getting used to them. Not sure which.
EP - So no other new tracks on the go?
JC - I've a few nebulous ideas but nothing concrete. Like I say, we're having a rest after the gigs and the album.
EP - Put your feet up and relax with a nice cup of tea and a cookie crumb.
JC - You're unhealthily obsessed with that.
EP - Sorry.
JC - Good. What're you drinking?
EP - I've still got half a pint.
JC - Oh, yeah. Never mind then.
EP - I'll have some nuts though if you're going to the bar.
JC - What sort of nuts.
EP - Peanuts. <beat> Salted.
JC - Right.